Jul 24, 2010
Jul 23, 2010
Tuesday at 10:20pm
22 Comments - Like
￼Barbara Wolff Anderson likes this.
Preston Lehr at 3:21am on July 21st, 2010
the last part sounds rather pretentious...
Karen Kemi at 6:44am on July 21st, 2010
The Bible tells us to be the light. Eph. 5:8 .......but now you are light.......
We sure aren't light in the sense God is but we are to be imitators of God Eph. 5:1 so...... We are light but that is sure hard to be isn't it? delete
Preston Lehr at 7:07am on July 21st, 2010
light? Metaphorically? Does god entitle one to think for his self? I find a major clash in science and religion...
Karen Kemi at 7:25am on July 21st, 2010
God - in John and my text is capitalized.
If you have had a personal encounter with God - you would find that there is light more real than metaphoric.
Get a good book on science/faith. Here is one that I really like;
The Evidence for Christianity by Josh McDowell.
If you do a search on 'apologetics' you will get tons of information. Many good avenues out there to logically explain Christianity.
Of course reading/searching the Bible is the best resource.
I'm assuming you WANT to know more so that you have questions answered. Maybe you don't. I of course don't know. Lol
I have found that the Bible, faith and science complement each other beautifully. delete
Preston Lehr at 7:33am on July 21st, 2010
Science does not explain god to any extent... I want to see something that would explain it even t a tenth of a degree... I study tons of history and know that the oppression of science was to protect the sanctity of religion. These all date back before Christianity. As far as science goes... I am saying this 100%... Whether it be Biology / physics / Astronomy / Chemistry / any kind of science is not very supported by religion. Let me ask this... I can prove certain things in the bible could not at all be scientifically proven, how can you prove the bible is accurate? Certain things in religion can be disproven through science, i have never seen one proven example of religion disproving science... NOTE: I am not trying to slander your religion only trying to obtain a better extended knowledge. Each person is entitled to a spiritual belief that suits them.
Karen Kemi at 7:52am on July 21st, 2010
I'm sure Johns lyric post was not intended to spark this! Lol
I never once mentioned 'religion'. I'm asuming-which may be an error on my part- that you are using religion and faith interchangably. I was not.
Religion can mess anyone up because it is largely man made. Faith in Christ is based in truth and light (there is that again).
You may be studying the tail to explain the head. In other words- studying history, astrology etc to find the truth of Scripture. That won't happen unless-perhaps you study them side by side.
One proof of the Bible being accurate is this. Over 40 authors, over spans of decades and all writtings having the same theme not conflicting each other.
Also - just because you or I can't explain something does not mean its unexplainable. delete
Preston Lehr at 8:16am on July 21st, 2010
No... truth be told I am a very open-minded individual. I try and take the best from every religion, culture, and science and assert my own opinion. For example in science evolution is one the most generally accepted theories. I disagree with a lot of aspects with it because it is not logical or accurate in accordance with other sciences. I am open-minded enough to accept certain things that come along with worshiping the bible, but I do not read or speak Greek, Latin, or Hebrew fluently, so i have to go off of somebody else's translation and that makes it very hard to seek out a life style and religion that would fit me in entirety.
As far as the spanning of decades for the bible... they aren't all translated with the same meanings. War's have been fought on groups and religions take on that one bible. People that formed opinions off of the bible were stoned, crucified, and burnt for having a public display of difference in opinions. I'd say the biggest discrepancies in the bible were due to the printing press...
I don't study science to unexplain religion for the record... Back to my original question... doesn't god let you think for yourself? Truth be told, if you are to question religion you should consider yourself a diest or a scientologist. Religion doesn't offer a way for one to think differently without an automatic clash of unexplained events and questions. I guess I could put stock in a belief or i can take what makes sense to me and form a religious base off of things that apply to me directly. I just personally don't see how a book or series of books can explain everyone's life or relate to everyone. isn't the bible supposed to worldly? Everyone should be able to apply it? I don't understand how people can clash so much on a universally sound book.
Karen Kemi at 12:34pm on July 21st, 2010
I am at work right now so no time to comment on everything.
Who do you say Christ is? delete
Karen Kemi at 12:41pm on July 21st, 2010
Rofl. A comment my sister and others have said is this.
Do you know what happens when you're open minded?
Your brains fall out
A little tongue in cheek comment delete
Preston Lehr at 1:03pm on July 21st, 2010
Christ is God's son of course... Lol... Who is Budda? Who is the Dalai Lama? Who is the Pope? I can do that too ya know.
Barbara Wolff Anderson at 2:26pm on July 21st, 2010
Deep subject for FB. But to answer your question: Does God let you think for yourself? The answer: yes. Hence all the troubles we see in the world, the strife and discord, the wars, etc.
Science may not explain God; however all of Creation shouts of Him. Science cannot explain Creation; cannot explain how the universe came to be.
You say that evolution is one of the generally accepted theories. It is a theory and one that cannot be scientifically proven; in fact can scientifically be disproven. Even Darwin says it cannot be proven.
More and more science supports the Bible.
However the most important question is: Who do you say Christ is? And if Christ is who He says He is -the great I AM - what does that mean to you? And when you stand before Him when you die... will He know you?
Preston Lehr at 6:41pm on July 21st, 2010
Actually things can be created by scientists, that is proven... People can create life to a certain degree. People can certainly create a living environments. You can prove evolution to a large degree by the way, the only way it is not proven is mathematically and in certain slower generated species... the real question isn't whether it's true or not, it's how true is it. Darwin is Naive by the way - I have read the Origin of Species and you have to remember the technological differences that they had at the time from now. Read up on mendels work... Evolution is certainly true, but like I said it's how true is it in accordance with all living organisms.
You say more and more science supports the bible, but like I asked... Name one example that proves the existence of a god or higher being, emphasis on proof. To my knowledge there is complete clash between the science and religious worlds. If I can hear one sturdy argument that has science even agreeing with religion legitimately I would be way more convinced. I respect the fact that you have a belief system, but Jesus certainly means something completely different to me than it does for you.
I guess I have to ask how you personally got into religion and if you have tried any other types of religion... How do you truly know you are thinking for yourself if you do not open your mind to alternative belief systems. Did you just know from birth that the religion you have today was the best one for you?
Preston Lehr at 6:54pm on July 21st, 2010
I would also like to state Barbara and Karen it is refreshing to have concise view point and people that are openly willing to share their perspective on things... If I sound like I am attacking your religion, that is the common misconception of facebook as opposed to a face to face conversation. Things can definitely be taken the wrong way... I do respect your opinion and think the world of other people that are willing to share their view points.
Karen Kemi at 7:04pm on July 21st, 2010
Thanks Preston. I appreciate that. I will say that my 'religion' would be Covenant. I rarely discuss religion because I'm not that well versed on that.
I hope that I conveyed that I was discussing faith which is very differnt than religion.
I like discussion but you are right - it is hard to discuss things like this on FB.
I hope we can continue the dialog delete
Preston Lehr at 7:15pm on July 21st, 2010
Anytime you would like... Like I said I am very open minded and it seems like you are as well. Makes for interesting conversations in the future.
Karen Kemi at 7:27pm on July 21st, 2010
Well...... I may not be as open minded as you think! I strive to have a Biblical world view and that narrows things down. But I do welcome discussion. So......let 'er rip. Lol delete
Preston Lehr at 7:37pm on July 21st, 2010
Do you plan on learning any of the original written languages... i am studying Latin right now... I know the oldest Biblical scriptures were either Hebrew or Greek, I'm thinking Greek... And then Latin converted.
Karen Kemi at 8:02pm on July 21st, 2010
hebrew old testament and Greek and Latin New testament.
I have a hebrew/Greek Bible. A copy of the dead sea scrolls and many many different translations of the Bible. delete
Preston Lehr at 8:06pm on July 21st, 2010
that is really cool... Do you read any Hebrew or greek fluently?
Karen Kemi at 8:32pm on July 21st, 2010
No I wish I did. I cross reference ALL the time so I can see what the authors originally wrote. delete
Barbara Wolff Anderson wrote;
I'll pass the torch to an excellent blog that addresses science and faith. If you think I'm dunking out...I am. I am a Christian and I'm fortunate to have been born into a Christian family. I have checked into other "faiths". But it does boil down to - what happens after you die? All the debates and theories are useless until you can answer that question. Is there a Heaven and hell.
Preston- Yes the Mayan believe is centralized around resurrection and life long worship of god, maybe even more devout than Christianity. I can't say that a religion that is newer than some of old are more correct or straying one down the wrong path. You would first have to believe in Satan... You first have to define creator from God, which is it? A creator in most religions does not interfere with those in which he creates... A God or the act of being a God is a sometimes self-destructive and chaotic way of viewing an almighty. My question is not with god, its with the people that harness the belief system that is wide spread. People have died over religion for many years, and I can't believe that god would knowingly send someone into the fire or torture to show us a lesson that he already knows we aren't going to learn from as a whole society. So what is it create to destroy?
Gravity can be explained, however is not proven through universal properties to complex to even expand on in a short amount of time. In short Mathematics is the only thing between gravity and explanation in full regard. That's what science is though... It is explaining real world properties via the scientific method... I know gravity exists because of certain other proven properties in science that built up over 100's of years of study. It wasn't over night. Religion to me is extremely un-provable not only because of the fact it goes way beyond Quantum mechanics, but because it is a so called energy that is undetectable. At least with gravity you can see it and feel it everyday in anything, as sure as you breathe gravity keeps you on this earth.
A little about a lot? I have a very firm grasp on the universal properties... I wish more people honestly understood. We would be a better place. Thats a bold statement though... I guess it's better than ONLY knowing a lot about one thing. I guess that is the road to knowing more than many is studying many things... It's called a well rounded perspective I guess. I didn't accuse you of being complacent by the way... It was used in my analogy. I also didn't assume you didn't choose to be Christian... I stated that if you were in another part of the world you would not be a Christian... Statistics alone would tell you that. It's not an insult its a probability. The fact some Middle easterners choose to be Christian shows that they open their minds to other cultures when it is nearly impossible to be exposed to Christianity over there. And no not many middle easterners are Christians as the Muslim religion is the leading religion in the world.
You stated that I was a close minded atheist... I'd say that was slander at its finest, but I didn't take offense. Right next to Atheist it states my other religious beliefs...
This desire is given only by God and always results in the conclusion that God as revealed in Christian scriptures is the only true God."
This is exactly what I mean by not being open minded...
That blog is Phony... he states that the only correct picture is the bible. How can it be the only right picture, when several religions have been longer standing. Also... He is assuming that when we are wrong about the big picture that is where science and discovery take place... through a process of correcting the discrepancies in argument.
This guy has the gall to call himself a theologian when in all truth he is just a simple philosopher using no examples... a Apologetics philosopher. This guy doesn't understand Theology in truth is the questioning of god... it's a science of proving god's existence through the same as scientific principles... Mathematics, extensive testing, theorizing scriptures, concluding evidence... Just experimenting in all spectrum's. This guy uses no such examples... He spits on science... This guy uses no history, which is a huge part of theology as a whole. He doesn't apply any physical laws in helping prove his argument... This guy doesn't even sound like he has broken down any scriptures to find truth or philosophy in the bible. I cannot take a guy seriously that will not even give examples, but instead blunders about with his argument with no purpose. He needs to go back and study Plato some more on how to argue passively for religion... Religion can be obtained through science and likewise the other way. Everything must be done through the two...
Religion would be nothing more than a thought if it weren't for a mass of people... Think about that... there has to be propaganda involved for religion to swell and survive. Simply put it takes a collection of people for a religion to thrive, so how can it be about a personal relationship with god if the idea wouldn't exist without millions of people over time worshiping it together?
You say "I know more about universal things than most people."? That is rather grandiose. You are very young ... 24? To know more than most people.
You says you won't delve into the Bible until you learn greek or Hebrew. That is just an excuse to avoid it.
You want to go obtuse to avoid the very simple question: What will happen to you when you die?
You can name theories and religions - but there is only one death - and then what?
It doesn't matter if you don't believe in heaven or hell... it's there regardless.
You are not seeking God - you are seeking arguments.
You really put down Comfort's blog - but I would suggest you attempt to debate HIM because he would enjoy that debate. That I don't believe you will do because you are poorly equipped to do so.
You hide behind your words and pride that you are inclusive of all religions and theories.
You are shouting into the wind.
Jul 22, 2010
From: "Karen" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 03:02:29
To: Barbara Anderson<MBC-Andy@msn.com>
Subject: And now I'm done. Lol
Wow... That was long. Did your homework or what?
First off Devout doesn't necessarily interpret the same way in Christianity that it does in other cultures religions. Devout is in English meant to say... I am a open and worshiping Christian believer or something to that extent. In other cultures it takes on whole other contexts, depending on how dated the religion is of course and what the worship is and the basic principality of the religion.
You talk about Atheism being close minded, but didn't say why... Second off I am a cross between atheism/Science/Deism... I believe in a creator that's the difference with my religious belief system. I am also a believer in other religions... I like to take the best out of every religion that is within intelligent reasoning and form my own base religion off of that. Too many people inherit religion and have no reasoning for it except that it is within their comfort zone for faith and spiritual guidance, because it is all they have known. If you were born in the middle east you would not be a Christian... there is no way. So your placement from birth as I was saying has a lot to do with the complacency that people experience.
By the way close minded is not stepping outside of the bible to confirm your own belief system to be true by best comparison. How do you know your religion is right if you never experience any others, or at least take anything away from observing other cultures/religions.
Also back to my analogy of why god would send anyone to hell if he is already pre-disposed to knowing the integrity of man. He created us right? Why would he gives us that ability to sin to only punish us for it after what your belief system calls "death?" Makes no sense unless there is some grand reason why a being would create something to only punish it later... Is this a mercy thing? Should one feel complacent to being predisposed to live around and wallow in sin?
I can't help but think as the years of so called sin grow more and more... This so called wrath of god is going to dissipate along with the religion... just my view point on Christianity and other religions. I like some of the morals instilled by the Christians, but to me it seems like there is nothing in Christianity that i can't get in another religion... Can you really respect a religion who's historical connotation is beyond negative. Seriously people have died over this religion in the worst ways. I can't stand behind the religion or the Holy bible, but I can take bits out of it that I really like, much like Ghandi did when he studied Christianity. I have to say the best interpretations I ever got from the bible were from Ghandi hands down. he created a religious view off of the passage, If any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also. - or something like that as far as the quotations go.
I like that you came with a bunch of bible passages, but I will never be the person to argue your religion's literature. That is the founding principles to your belief system and it would do me no good anyways. I can however appreciate the wording of such passages like...
"Matthew 7:13 enter by the narrow gate for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction and many are those who enter by it."
It is a well written passag
You mentioned devout. Being devout doesn't automatically elevate a cause or a person to a lofty position. The object of the devotion is what matters. The object of my faith is the resurrected Christ.
Also- ' I first have to believe in satan'.
I do believe in satan because the Bible tells his entire history.
I hope you have a Bible so you can look some things up.
John 8:44 you are of your father the devil and you want to do the desires of your father. He is a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth and the truth is not in him. Whenever he speaks a lie he speaks from his own nature for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Also you questioned why God would send someone to hell for a lesson He knows we will not learn.
Matthew 7:13 enter by the narrow gate for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction and many are those who enter by it.
God lovingly allows us to think for ourselves. That's why the way to destruction is broad. Because everyone thinks for themselves and thinks there way is best. Our hearts and selfish and wicked so we kill our souls. why would God 'send us to hell?' We willing go to hell ourselves by walking away from Christ salvation. Free thought
Mark 3:29 whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness but is guilty of an eternal sin....
Heb. 5:9 and having been made perfect He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation.
Romans 1:19 because that which is known about God is evident within them. For God made it evident to them ......1:22 professing to be wise-they became fools....:25 for they exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator who is blessed forever. Amen.
Romans 6:23 for the wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Another good site to reference is: www.equip.org
You sound so smart and clearly you are and yet in none of our correspondence have you quoted anything or stated anything you absolutely trust in. Just lots of thoughts. You are 24 which is a good age to explore but be careful you explore something ---someONE who leads you to Truth and eternal life.
I also saw that you list atheism as one of your religions. That seems as close minded as it gets.
Read Romans in the Bible and see if you have your mind changed.
I do wish we were face to face. It would be easier I think to show you Scripture and have a less inhibiting convo.
Do check out the site Barbara suggested. Ray Comfort is very logical- as it appears you are as well. The two of you will get along.
At the end of the day I will say that I do NOT have all the answers and I'm not the brightest bulb around or even in this conversation perhaps but I know one thing for absolute certain. I am saved from an eternity apart from God because I have accepted Gods plan for making us clean before His holiness-- His Sons death on the cross--paying the cost for our choices.
Yes God does allow us to think for ourselves.
However- our 'open-mindedness' causes a great divide between us and God. when God could have wiped us out because of our sin- He lovingly provided the payment for us.
So when I stand before Him HE will see His Sons righteousness and He will welcome me into my heavenly home.
Will the Mayan faith or Buddha or ....whatever offer that?
Jul 21, 2010
Intended for anyone and everyone who would like to explore faith-science-logical belief if God and the resurrected Christ.
I'm just learning how to host a thread but I DO know that it is a good idea to have a blog to host and archive on so.......
This is my personal blog so this is as good as any.
Be patient and help me learn.
Jul 19, 2010
The Power of Forgiveness
"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you." - Ephesians 4:31-32
There isn't one person reading this who hasn't been hurt by another person. Question: what are you doing with that offense? Do you hold them hostage for the injury they inflicted on you? How many hours and days have you wasted thinking,
"You owe me and I'm going to make you pay?"That's a tough question on a painful topic but you have to get it settled. In order to navigate your way through relationships, you need to hold a conviction about how you're going to respond when someone hurts you.
Ephesians 4:31-32 gives us direction:
"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you."Read that last phrase again,
"as God in Christ forgave you."As freely as He forgave you.
As quickly as He forgave you.
As generously as He forgave you.
Jesus models what forgiveness should look like in our lives. He was falsely accused, mocked, beaten, and spat upon, then crucified. As He hung on that cross for your sins and mine, He said: "
Father, forgive them." Jesus' model motivates us to live out Ephesians 4:32,
"Just as God in Christ has forgiven you."You've heard me say it before: there are no enduring relationships without forgiveness. None. Before you go very far in any partnership, there will be forks in the road where if you do not forgive, the relationship will not survive. It's true in every marriage, in every household, in every small group, in every friendship. This is always, always true.
Because of Christ, you owe me nothing."
I love this true account from the life of Leonardo DaVinci. Not only was he a great painter, but DaVinci had a great faith in God. On the day he was to begin to paint the masterpiece, "The Last Supper," he had a blow-out argument with one of his friends.
As he was painting the disciples seated around the table, DaVinci was still sour toward his friend. So when it came time to paint Judas - you guessed it - he painted his friend's face. Then he moved on to paint Jesus. Of course Leonardo loved Christ but try as he might, he couldn't paint His likeness in any way that he thought represented His beauty. He painted, erased, painted, erased. Convicted by his own unforgiveness, he repainted the face of Judas with some other, random likeness and went to get right with his friend. Only then could he return to finish his portrait of Christ.
It's been said that DaVinci's face of Christ in this work is one of the most beautiful ones ever painted. What a great picture of the mercy in forgiveness. It will bear itself out in your life and mine. We will not see the likeness of Christ reproduced in our lives until we forgive.
Has the Lord brought a relationship to mind that needs your long-overdue forgiveness? By faith say, "Because of Christ, you owe me nothing." Take to heart God's call on your life:
"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you."